tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-987850932434001559.post4458321690151346146..comments2024-03-29T11:00:11.612+01:00Comments on The 20% Statistician: The Statisticians' FallacyDaniel Lakenshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18143834258497875354noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-987850932434001559.post-72356087942580425262017-11-14T21:58:32.226+01:002017-11-14T21:58:32.226+01:00Nice post. I tried to make a similar argument by p...Nice post. I tried to make a similar argument by pointing out that many statistical analyses depend on exactly the same information from the data but can produce different answers because they ask different questions. Details at:<br />https://link.springer.com/article/10.3758%2Fs13428-016-0812-3<br />Greg Francishttp://www2.psych.purdue.edu/~gfrancis/home.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-987850932434001559.post-70714842382132046972017-11-13T13:57:20.435+01:002017-11-13T13:57:20.435+01:00>> There is no room for the Statistician’s F...>> There is no room for the Statistician’s Fallacy in our education. I do not think it is useful to tell researchers what they want to know. <br /><br />I haven't heard of anyone doing this in his/her lectures.<br /><br />>> the idea that there is always a single thing ‘we want’ is not true<br /><br />Nor do I see this idea being presented in any of the quotes. In my reading, the quoted statements are descriptive - they tell us what researchers want to do based on what we saw them doing in the past. There are numerous studies that show that researchers interpret p value as probability of the hypothesis (eg Oakes,1986) and Cumming has done some research questioning students about their use and interpretation of p values and effect size. <br /><br />In addition, in some qoutes, the "we" might refer to the author of the manuscript and the statements about "what we want" refer to goals that were set earlier in the writing. I can certainly imagine this being the case for the qoute from Cumming. We should consider the context.<br /><br />>> But I think it’s a good idea to teach them about all the possible questions they can ask.<br /><br />Of course, this is a nice idea and hardly anyone would disagree. But how do we find all those possible questions and how and what should we teach students about them? My guess is that in the end the popular answer would be to provide introduction into (history of) philosophy of science and perhaps some (history of) epistemology, sprinkled with some insights from Meehl, Cohen and other gurus. I doubt this improves inferences since it does not provide a formal, transparent and replicable (and thus scientific) language for asking and discussing scientific questions and statements. <br /><br />As You possibly already learned from my other comments, I think such language already exists and should be taught. It's the language of modern causal inference. <br /><br />matushttp://simkovic.github.ionoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-987850932434001559.post-31178462143686287902017-11-12T13:26:41.329+01:002017-11-12T13:26:41.329+01:00Bravo! Occasionally my brighter students manage t...Bravo! Occasionally my brighter students manage to "come up for air" after being submerged in probability distributions, hypothesis tests, and modeling techniques. Then they ask "What's it all for?" and "How do I know when to use what?" and other embarrassing questions which most textbooks carefully avoid. Now I need to collect case studies that prompt my students to think about those "possible questions to ask."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-987850932434001559.post-36621011307927791502017-11-11T21:25:24.870+01:002017-11-11T21:25:24.870+01:00On pointOn pointAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-987850932434001559.post-5136223451846920672017-11-11T19:33:23.705+01:002017-11-11T19:33:23.705+01:00This is your best post so far Daniel. I look forwa...This is your best post so far Daniel. I look forward to the one directly following up your last sentence.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00227235335343168838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-987850932434001559.post-33429465880327696532017-11-11T15:54:06.426+01:002017-11-11T15:54:06.426+01:00As a Stats teacher, I don't tell my students w...As a Stats teacher, I don't tell my students what they want to know. I do, however, tell them what kind of questions they can (and can't) get answered whenever they apply a particular technique or model. As a consultant, I typically hear the person first (to know "what they want") and then I try to advice accordingly. It does happen that then I rephrase what one can achieve when using a specific method (kind of what you can conclude once you replace a parametric by a nonparametric ANOVA, or even better, once you ditch frequestism over bayesianism). I think it is a best advice to educate students to phrase their questions in such a way that a translation into a suitable statistical model becomes feasible (instead of just freely phrasing questions).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com